UCF vs FSU long-term (hear me out) (2024)

Post: #1

FYI, this topic is about football.

Enrollment
UCF - Their enrollment size is just insane. 68K.
FSU - By no means is FSU small 48k is massive.

Metro Area
UCF - 2.6 million
FSU - 400k

Immediate City
UCF - 310k
FSU- 200k

Sports Culture the last 20 years
FSU - Can't beat a title.
UCF - They overall have more wins than FSU.

Academics
FSU - No doubt FSU is a fine institution.
UCF - They are not bad but they are not elite.

IMO if UCF make a baseline of pulling in top 30 recruiting classes and having a healthy amount of 8+ win seasons as an expectation. I think have the tools to be an equal peer with FSU.

(This post was last modified: 05-02-2024 04:01 PM by TrojanCampaign.)

Post: #2

Post: #3

In their draw, FSU and UF are state schools, USF and UCF metropolitan schools. The first two sell out stadiums everywhere in the peninsula. They attract students the same way. It's not all about the resident population near campus.

Nothing stays static, of course. The generalisation just offered has been changing for USF as a research institution for some time now and apparently for UCF as a team.

It doesn't do to say never about any university's potential. Universities have great resources. This applies to all four universities just mentioned. And many more.

(This post was last modified: 05-02-2024 03:32 AM by Gitanole.)

Post: #4

Post: #5

(05-02-2024 03:40 AM)The Beaver Wrote: Not sure why people count up metro areas. I mean, yeah, sure if its literally in a dead zone then that is bad but being near a city with more than one or two sports teams has historically been awful for getting people to care about how the local college is doing. Now, Orlando does only have a single pro team but man, those other Florida teams (especially the Tampa ones) sure are close.

The circle around a campus mainly affects what kind of fan attendance you can expect at games. For schools with more regional appeal it also affects recruiting. Schools that throw their nets statewide or nationally for recruits aren't as much affected.

If population in the immediate area decided so much, Temple would be in the B1G Ten and Penn State would be a G5.

The more important factor for universities is where their alumni settle. The patterns for that can be surprising. Sometimes most alumni live near campus. Sometimes most alumni live nowhere near campus.

Post: #6

Post: #7

Hopefully we'll meet in the Expanded CFP, where the game matters.

If you play it in non-conference, its a lose-lose situation for FSU. FSU has no motivation to schedule UCF.
- If FSU wins and cover the spread, you were supposed to.
- If FSU wins and the don't cover, not good enough you supposed to cover against lil bro
- If FSU loses, its chaos and why did the AD schedule this game, fire him

Status of Florida Football:
--- Tier 1 ---
FSU
--- Tier 2 ---
Florida
UCF
Miami
--- Tier 3 ---
USF
FAU
--- Tier 4 ---
FIU

I'm more interested in UCF @ UF scheduled this year. I believe Sunbelt Billy is the worst coach they have had in over 40 years. Gus Malzahn has been trying to build the program up. This game might be a landmark game for UCF winning in the Swamp.

(This post was last modified: 05-02-2024 08:44 AM by ArmoredUpKnight.)

Post: #8

Florida State baseball has been to 23 College World Series in 59 Tournament appearances, having appeared in the national championship final on three occasions (losing to USC in 1970, Arizona in 1986 and Miami in 1999).

FSU men's basketball has two Elite Eight appearances and a 1972 national title runner-up.

The Seminole athletics history and tradition is such that UCF would face a major challenge to ever be perceived on the same level as FSU.

Another point: UCF — perhaps unfairly so — will always be viewed, by some, as a "directional school." Now, I consider UCF (and USF, for that matter) more so an "urban university" (like the University of Pittsburgh, the University of Cincinnati, the University of Louisville, etc.) given it is located in a city and offers a level of academic prestige that most true "directional schools" (like Middle Tennessee State, my alma mater) do not. Still, that perception will always pose a challenge for UCF.

(This post was last modified: 05-02-2024 11:47 AM by bill dazzle.)

Post: #9

(05-02-2024 08:16 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote: Status of Florida Football:
--- Tier 1 ---
FSU
--- Tier 2 ---
Florida
UCF
Miami
--- Tier 3 ---
USF
FAU
--- Tier 4 ---
FIU

LOL

Post: #10

I might be in the minority, but I don’t consider UCF or USF mere “directional schools”. This might be the view point of the FSU higher ups and some fans, just not everybody. USF is a solid academic school, UCF is a solid athletics school.

If there was a way to have FSU, UM, USF and UCF can be in the same conference without hurting FSU or UM in some way or if it does, then a concession can be made, I’d be all for it. Conference alignment/realignment is cutthroat bussiness, I’m not wired that way.

Post: #11

(05-02-2024 12:10 AM)Gitanole Wrote: In their draw, FSU and UF are state schools, USF and UCF metropolitan schools. The first two sell out stadiums everywhere in the peninsula. They attract students the same way. It's not all about the resident population near campus.

Nothing stays static, of course. The generalisation just offered has been changing for USF as a research institution for some time now and apparently for UCF as a team.

It doesn't do to say never about any university's potential. Universities have great resources. This applies to all four universities just mentioned. And many more.

That's a good way of describing it. Florida and FSU have "markets" that encompass the whole state. Go anywhere from Pensacola to Miami, heck to Key West and you will find supporters. They are like Texas and Texas AM respectively in that regard.

USF and UCF aren't "directional" as some have said, even though their names are literally directions. They have evolved as metropolitan schools, they encompass the Tampa Bay and Orlando markets, that's where they primarily draw from. Though of course neither "owns" those areas. Heck if Florida comes to Tampa for a game, they will easily draw more fans than USF will. It is what it is.

(This post was last modified: 05-02-2024 09:11 AM by quo vadis.)

Post: #12

(05-01-2024 11:17 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Florida St is a top-20 brand. The above stuff matters if you’re comparing 2 programs outside the top 20 or so brands, but Florida St’s brand and following are far too established.

UCF has a long way to go to catch UF or FSU. They are getting close with UM. That could change with the way UM is recruiting right now. At the end of this shakeout, FSU will be in P2, UM might be and UCF will not be. We won't catch FSU anytime soon.

UCF will with decent coaching choices become a major brand and regular top 25 team.

Post: #13

The actual tiers in Florida:

Tier 1:
Florida
Florida State

Tier 1a:
Miami

Tier 2:
UCF

Tier 3:
USF

Tier 4:
FAU

Tier 5:
FIU

Post: #14

(05-02-2024 09:16 AM)shizzle787 Wrote: The actual tiers in Florida:

Tier 1:
Florida
Florida State

Tier 1a:
Miami

Tier 2:
UCF

Tier 3:
USF

Tier 4:
FAU

Tier 5:
FIU

There is no way anyone believes Florida is at the top of the food chain while Sunbelt Billy is in charge.

Post: #15

(05-02-2024 09:16 AM)shizzle787 Wrote: The actual tiers in Florida:

Tier 1:
Florida
Florida State

Tier 1a:
Miami

Tier 2:
UCF

Tier 3:
USF

Tier 4:
FAU

Tier 5:
FIU

Good list.

Post: #16

If Texas can support 6 P2/M2 type programs, then I think FL could support 4 or 5. UCF is in a unique spot because they are in one of the largest markets without an NFL team and they have a huge enrollment. That gives them a lot of potential as far as attracting t-shirt fans. If they perform well in the Big 12, they could become a serious threat to Florida’s Big 3.

Florida by no means has a UC Berkeley or UCLA level academic snobbery, but as the state grows, it’s going to become harder for local kids to get admitted.

Miami and USF have the NFL in their back yard to compete with which means that when wins are scarce, so are the bandwagon fans. UCF probably poses the biggest threat to Miami out of all the FL schools and could easily supplant them as the #3 program in the state. This will be accelerated if the Miami administration starts to deemphasize and decrease investment in revenue sports.

Florida St is not as vulnerable as Miami in regards to the ascension threat posed by UCF.

In some ways, UCF is a little like Texas Tech but with better geography —#3 state school (athletically) in a huge state. Has or will eclipse the historically strong private school(s) but probably will never break into the top 2

Post: #17

Florida has had a down since the covid year, but Florida is not only a "top tier" program in the state, it is one of the top tier programs in the SEC and hence country. It's in the same category with Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU, Georgia, etc.

I thought this was obvious but maybe I am out of touch.

Post: #18

(05-02-2024 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:

(05-02-2024 12:10 AM)Gitanole Wrote: In their draw, FSU and UF are state schools, USF and UCF metropolitan schools. The first two sell out stadiums everywhere in the peninsula. They attract students the same way. It's not all about the resident population near campus.

Nothing stays static, of course. The generalisation just offered has been changing for USF as a research institution for some time now and apparently for UCF as a team.

It doesn't do to say never about any university's potential. Universities have great resources. This applies to all four universities just mentioned. And many more.

That's a good way of describing it. Florida and FSU have "markets" that encompass the whole state. Go anywhere from Pensacola to Miami, heck to Key West and you will find supporters. They are like Texas and Texas AM respectively in that regard.

USF and UCF aren't "directional" as some have said, even though their names are literally directions. They have evolved as metropolitan schools, they encompass the Tampa Bay and Orlando markets, that's where they primarily draw from. Though of course neither "owns" those areas. Heck if Florida comes to Tampa for a game, they will easily draw more fans than USF will. It is what it is.

Right.

And on top of that as Darrell Royal, who coached at Mississippi St. and Washington before Texas, said, he'd rather coach at the U. of rather than State U. And to extend that, you'd rather coach at State U. than Directional U. or City U. There's an inherent advantage with the name on top of the history. UCF has been playing football for just over 30 years, USF for less than 25. Florida has over 100 years.

The small states, the Dakotas and Idaho, are the only places I can think of where the State U. or City U. has consistently better athletic programs (because of naming conventions, Ohio and Louisiana don't count). Kansas St. is better than Kansas in football, but overall Kansas is the bigger athletic brand. And prior to 30 years ago, KU was much better in football as well. Virginia Tech and UVA have exactly the same pattern, where one coach elevated the football program.

Post: #19

(05-02-2024 09:16 AM)shizzle787 Wrote: The actual tiers in Florida:

Tier 1:
Florida
Florida State

Tier 1a:
Miami

Tier 2:
UCF

Tier 3:
USF

Tier 4:
FAU

Tier 5:
FIU

1.Florida
2.Florida State
3.UCF
4.Miami
5.USF
6,FAU
7.West Florida
8.FIU

Post: #20

(This post was last modified: 05-02-2024 10:14 AM by bullet.)